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Hi - I recently have just started experimenting in making chainmail, and want to move onto making a shirt for SCA fighting. Anyone have words as to what kind of weave or rings I ought to be using to withstand some good shots from rattan (I'm be wearing a leather war-belt and leather shoulders over the chain). I've been working on a shirt for my girlfriend using 1/4 16 gauge rings in a 4 in 1 (galvinised) - her shirt is just for decorative purposes, but that seems pretty sturdy for fighting. Should I stick with the same plan for my shirt, or go down to 14 gauge, or go for a 6 in 1 (factoring in considerations of weight and amount of time to do the project) ? Any feedback would be much appreciated!
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Re: chainmail for sca fighting?
Thu, February 9, 2006 - 10:21 AMIn most cases chain mail can only be used as decoration on SCA armor. It does very little if anything at all to protect you from a rattan sword. I would talk with your local shire marshal (since each kingdom is different) to find out if your even allowed to adorn your armor with chain mail. I know I have seen chain mail rings come apart and go flying when hit, and always thought it was sort of unsafe having little bits of metal wire flying in several direction on a battle field. It would not surprise me if some kingdoms did not allow you to decorate your armor with it.
If your kingdom allows it I have seen several fighters have chain mail sleeves, and leggings that covered areas that don’t normally have to be armored, I have also seen fighters have chain mail attached to their helmets. -
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Re: chainmail for sca fighting?
Thu, February 9, 2006 - 12:21 PMYeah, I know that chainmail wouldn't give the best protection- my current plastic barrel armor can't be beat in terms of weight\ protection value, but I think it would be cool to try fighting with some more realistic weight. I haven't found anything about chainmail not being allowed in the SCA - the kidneys area is actually the only torso protection that's required. My war-belt would be taking the majority of blows I recieve, while the leather shoulders would get their share too. The only actual place where the chainmail would have be serving protective purposes is the chest, and I rarely get hit there (I'm not too worried about the occasional rattan bruise).
What you're saying about the chainmail flying apart might make sense, though, and that would definately keep me from using it in practice. Anyone else have experience fighting in chain, or should I just stick with the plastic? -
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Re: chainmail for sca fighting?
Fri, February 10, 2006 - 5:20 AMI replied to the post on the other board. see that too for more info.
I haven't had any problems with my chainmaille falling apart from blows. I have maille on my helm and have worn shirts in the past. I now wear maille protection on my back of my legs. I also have made maille for others that use it for fighting. I haven't had any of it shatter per say. Yes I supply people with extra links. If you make quality maille from quality wire, you have a lot less of a problem. You have to maintain the maille. You have to check it after each day. You may have to fix a link or two here or there. Yes, I get hit a lot.
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Re: chainmail for sca fighting?
Tue, February 14, 2006 - 11:23 AMI wouldn't wear chain UNDER armor. If the blow is hard enough i pity your skin... ouch. also Chain was never meant to protect from crushing blows, which is what rattan delivers. It was meant to protect against slicing/cutting blows. If nothing think about this fact: chainmaille = usless against a mace. The reason ppl have it attatched to their helms is actually not decorative at all. It hangs away from the body thus absorbing the blow before it can hit the neck. In this case you are allowed to forgo a gorget. As far as I know for heavy fighters you must have, a kidney belt, gorget or camail or avantail (neck protection), helm, either gauntlets or basket hilt or shield + vambraces to cover the forearm if basket hilt is used on either a sword or a shield, a cup for the groin, and knee & elbow cops that are padded are all REQUIRED as per the marshal handbook : www.sca.org/officers/mar...handbook.pdf. Kingdoms are allowed to add to this list but not take away. Usually w/a kidney belt it is skinny in the front. Seems like most tourneys either disallow back shots or it's considered extremely poor form, so if you're getting most of your blows to your belt then somebody's likely not playing by the rules. Granted the back is fair game in war, but still considered poor form by most of the European personas. What you've described as minimum protection is inaccurate even for Archers and Scouts: Scouts who are not allowed to be hit w/anything including missiles must wear an approved helm, kidney protection, gorget, and cup.
be sure to check w/your local kingdom to find out what their minimums are.
Good luck,
E -
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Re: chainmail for sca fighting?
Wed, February 15, 2006 - 9:06 AMThanks for the replys - great advice so far!
Just to clarify, E- When I said that a kidney belt meets the SCA safety requirments, that was for the torso armor - check the rules, there's nothing beyond kidney protection for the torso (arms, legs, head and crotch are different stories, of course).
My war belt's a modified kidney belt - it's wider in the front to protect the abdominal area. The majority of kill shots I receive are to the head, with the sides of my torso taking 2nd place (where the belt covers). -
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Re: chainmail for sca fighting?
Fri, February 17, 2006 - 6:59 PMYour local marshal is who will decide if what your wearing is up to snuff, so let's get back to your questions.
6in1 is too inflexible to make an entire shirt of. I've seen it used to reinforce areas, but you're already using leather and plastic for that. Go with a basic 4in1 pattern. You already know it's not great protection, so don't be surprised when you get some interesting shaped bruises.
If you use a good spring steel wire for the maille you'll have fewer 'metal moth' holes to repair. I preffer a stainless spring steel.
I can't say I've ever seen maille shatter, That seems pretty improbable. If your really worried about flying bits try weaving in solid rings, or rivet the rings or use double rings (like split key rings), or weld the rings. All four of those will result in a very sturdy maille, but they'll be harder to weave and possibly heavier to wear.
There are plenty of suppliers on the web who'll sell you wire or coils or preformed rings in almost any size. If you have the means I suggest you get preformed rings. Knitting is time consuming enough with out having to wrap and cut and close too.
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Re: chainmail for sca fighting?
Sat, February 18, 2006 - 3:16 PMOh okay, you had me escared there! Whew. ;"-)
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Re: chainmail for sca fighting?
Tue, April 17, 2007 - 12:46 PMold post i know, but nowadays in the SCA rivetted mail is the standard (and it's the period) method of shirt construction. if you want to get it 100% right, do flat rings with wedge rivets. it's much lighter than normal mail. i have a hauberk (with round rivets, it's from india) that's 17lbs or so. here's a guy who specializes in the top of the line stuff: www.forth-armoury.com/Product...tyle.htm
even in the SCA, mail over gambeson over kidney belt is good protection, even here in the west, where if you had to think about the strength of the blow, it was no good.
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Re: chainmail for sca fighting?
Sun, December 23, 2007 - 9:48 PMNever made it myself - but have you thought of 'banded' mail? Thread leather strips through a standard euro 4-in-1 weave, this provides better protection against crushing blows. -
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Re: chainmail for sca fighting?
Thu, February 26, 2009 - 4:41 AMthis is really late, but I joined this tribe because I saw this thread on a Google search....
I fight heavy, and my master-at-arms had an old chainmaille hauberk I earned for service that I had to quit fighting in for tourneys because I simply couldn't feel the blows. The shirt was a *smidge* big, so the rings (10ga. wire?) draped nicely but weighed 32 lbs., and sucked up the smack of the rattan like nothing. In fact, I was politely told by some of the older knights that I had to be careful lest I pick up a reputation for rhino-hiding during combat.
So, I'm making another one now that my first one went to my brother-at-arms in Colorado Springs. I can't wait to see his face when I show him the new one in another six months or so.
hehehe
Gabriel Talavera Sanchez de Zaragoza
Bjornsborg
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